Episode 609

Wistfully Remembering the Athleticism of Christian Ponder

Hosts	Arif Hasan, James Pogatshnik
Guests	None
Type	Preseason

Norse Code Episode 609: Wistfully Remembering the Athleticism of Christian Ponder was a preseason episode covering the Ravens preseason game recap, the JJ McCarthy situation, the punter battle, a season win-total discussion, and a Broncos game preview, followed by a mailbag that ended in a lengthy digression about Robert Kraft, Malort, the Dinkytown McDonald's, and the deaths of Dolly Parton and Tim Curry.

Overview

The bulk of the episode was a thorough assessment of JJ McCarthy's Ravens preseason performance, the state of the 53-man roster bubble, the punter competition between Johnny Hekker and Brett Thorson, and a season outlook placing Arif firmly in the under camp at 8.5 wins. The closing was dedicated, per James, to Tim Curry, with the outro line drawn from Muppet Treasure Island.

Correction: Episode 608 Title

Episode 608 was posted to Wide Left Football under the title Adam Thielen is a Hall of Famer, a garbled version of the Vinatieri debate that dominated the cold open of that episode. Both hosts found this extremely funny.

Segments

JJ McCarthy and the QB Situation

McCarthy's Ravens preseason performance extended his struggles from the Giants game. The primary discussion points:

His time-to-throw remained historically long; Arif argued that even accounting for a weak offensive line — Henry Bird was poor, Ver-Shawn Lee was poor, Michael Jurgens was below average — he did not perform well in clean pockets either
His best throw of the game, a 50-50 ball to Ty Felton, was identified as a case where McCarthy stepped up into the pocket and used that momentum correctly — Arif noted that if your best throw of the game is also the one where your process is correct, that is not encouraging
A CBS Sports piece and a Tyler Dunne/Go Long TD piece on McCarthy's reliability among coaches and players had published during the same week
Carson Wentz again outperformed McCarthy by a significant margin, which Arif noted was itself a concern about the backup position given Wentz's injury history
Max Brosmer was injured early in the Giants game, forcing Wentz into extended action — one observer had initially concluded Brosmer was benched for poor play before the injury was reported

On the question of cutting McCarthy: Arif assessed it as unlikely but not off the table. The primary argument for keeping him was that he offered more upside than Brosmer, and that teams with arrogant-enough coaching staffs would potentially take a reclamation flyer on a first-round pick — meaning trade value, however minimal (a sixth or seventh), existed. McCarthy was assessed as the QB3, with the Vikings likely carrying three quarterbacks given the circumstances.

The question of McCarthy's historical peers was explored: was his ceiling lower than Christian Ponder's? Arif looked up Ponder's 2012 era-adjusted net yards per attempt (89 on a scale where 100 is average) and compared it to McCarthy's previous season (74 — described as "the one where it's like, this guy needs assistance"). Ponder could at least throw short, could hand off to Adrian Peterson, could target Percy Harvin deep, and once lowered his shoulder into Lance Briggs. McCarthy cannot throw short. The hosts acknowledged, reluctantly, that this comparison is not flattering to McCarthy.

Arif also reviewed the historical record of first-round quarterbacks who fell to third string and recovered to above-average play. The piece "Post-Bust Revival" at Wide Left covered many cases — Drew Brees, Ryan Tannehill, Sam Darnold, Geno Smith — but almost all did so on a different team. The only meaningful same-team example Arif could identify was Alex Smith under Jim Harbaugh. For every Alex Smith there are a million Jake Lockers and Blaine Gabberts, the majority of whom played for AFC South teams.

Punter Battle: Hekker vs. Thorson

Arif assessed the punter competition between Johnny Hekker and Brett Thorson. Contrary to expectations, Hekker looked like the better punter — Arif had anticipated Thorson to be the better punter despite lacking holding experience. Thorson's holds looked fine on limited viewing. Hekker was assessed as the likely starter; Thorson could plausibly land on the practice squad as an international pathway player, requiring no roster spot. James revealed that Arif had been placed in the same Oops, All Punters league division as Luke Braun.

Oops, All Punters: Final Rules

James confirmed the full scoring system for the Oops, All Punters edition of the Hell League:

Touchdown pass on a fake punt: 100 points
Touchdown run on a fake punt: 200 points
Touchdown reception by a punter: 1,000 points (has never happened)
Punt yards: 1 point per yard
Punt inside the 10: 25 points; inside the 20: 10 points
Blocked punt: −50 points
Touchback: −5 points
Fair catch: 10 points
44+ yard average: 50 points; cascading down to 33.9 or below: −10 points
Hell League kicker scoring update: 50–59 yard field goals now worth 25 points; 60+ yards worth 60 points

Season Outlook and Win Total

Vegas over/under: 8.5 wins. Arif took the under — not because he believed the Vikings were generally bad, but because a fourth-place division team winning over half their games is historically rare, and the NFC North was the wrong division in which to be fourth. He noted the defence could realistically be a top-three unit, the offence could be top-10 with Murray, and individual games would be worth caring about regardless of playoff odds. He also recommended emotional investment now rather than checking out and returning as a tourist when things improve. Carson Wentz starts over/under: 2.5 — Arif took the under.

Broncos Preview and Roster Bubble

Players identified as on the roster bubble heading into the third preseason game:

Defensive tackle/edge: Elijah Williams, Isaiah Lattimore, Tyler Batty, Bo Richter, Chas Chambliss (cross-training at fullback, edge, and middle linebacker; likely makes the team), Tyrion Ingram-Dawkins (making the team, question is at which position)
Linebacker: Ivan Pace, Jacob Roberts, Bengali Kamara — the question of whether a fifth linebacker spot exists, with the possibility (Tyler Forness's pet theory) that Ivan Pace is cut flagged but deemed unlikely
Cornerback: Chuck Dennis (fighting for CB3, not truly on the bubble), James Pierre, Devon Armstead, Zemaia Vaughn — question of how many the Vikings carry, four through six
Safety: Jacoby Thomas, Theo Jackson (locked in as starter); Jay Ward's versatility noted — lined up at corner, slot, box, free safety, and on the line of scrimmage across the Ravens game
Wide receiver: Dylan Bell, Deshawn Jones (suspended three games; unclear if he needs to be on the 53); Myles Price and Ty Felton both likely safe
Offensive line: Michael Jurgens, Joe Huber, Caleb Tiernan (third-round pick, spiritually a bubble player), Ryan Vandermark (has to make the team), Walter Rouse
Running back: Xavier Gipson as potential fourth back; Deone Claiborne assessed as RB3 over Gipson despite Gipson's better running, due to catastrophic pass protection
Tight end: Gavin Bartholomew vs. Ben Yurosek for the third spot (Yurosek's name pronounced "Yerosek" on the broadcast); Bryson Nesbit also in consideration

Around the League

The Pro Bowl has been officially eliminated. Arif mourned a lost opportunity to cover it (he had once turned down a Pro Bowl credential to cover the Shrine Bowl), praised the removal of the game itself and the end of Pro Bowl alternate proliferation, and cited Justis Mosqueda's legendary Pro Bowl film breakdowns as a casualty of history
Deshaun Watson complained of being booed for personal reasons. Arif gave an extended assessment arguing he is primarily being booed for poor play and unavailability, that good players who are bad people tend to get their character laundered by performance, and that Watson's use of his foundation as moral currency was undermined by tax return data showing $510,000 raised in 2025 with $80,000 ever paid out — $488,000 of the revenue coming from Watson himself, suggesting a tax shelter. The Cleveland Browns were assessed as deserving of a fruit basket from every other team for assuming the worst-trade-in-NFL-history mantle from the Herschel Walker deal. Arthur Blank was also noted as having narrowly escaped the same fate
The Atlanta Falcons' Watson counterfactual was explored: James proposed asking SūmerBrain what would have happened if Atlanta had signed Watson, noting the butterfly effects on Kirk Cousins' trajectory

Mailbag

Raul — Is there something uniquely uncatchable about JJ McCarthy's fastball — is it the spin rate? Arif: probably not spin rate, which he believes is within normal range. More likely velocity combined with ball placement and trajectory — Tom Brady has discussed how a ball with its nose angled slightly upward is more catchable, and McCarthy may not have developed the touch to consistently achieve this. The underlying issue is that he threw the ball remarkably little at Michigan even before the injury, leaving fewer reps to develop nuance.

Sternile — JJ (Justin Jefferson): 2,000 yards, playoff win, or Brian Flores takes head coaching duties — which is more likely? Arif: playoff win. Then immediately noted he had just taken the under on eight wins in the same episode, and acknowledged the contradiction.

LeVar Bolsharif — Has there ever been a first-round quarterback who fell to third string and recovered to above-average play on the same team? Arif: Alex Smith under Jim Harbaugh is the only meaningful modern example. Almost all other post-bust revivals — Drew Brees, Ryan Tannehill, Sam Darnold — happened on a different team. McCarthy's situation is probably over, but he stays because he is better than Max Brosmer and someone might take a trade flyer.

Ricardo — When enshrined in the Hall of Fame, will Sean Payton be the first inductee to perform his own induction speech? Arif: Drew Brees or Taysom Hill are the only candidates to induct him; they will probably finish each other's sentences. Payton choosing his own highlight clips — ones where he thinks he looks good but does not — was identified as extremely likely. The clip of Payton doing the skol clap moments before the Minneapolis Miracle was flagged as a probable inclusion.

Leon Smorgasbord — How could anyone not see the vision in JJ Son-of-Grossman McCarthy? Arif: the Rex Grossman comparison made immediate sense. Grossman being a starting Super Bowl quarterback remains baffling. The Devin Hester Bowl remains the only reason to watch that game.

Yannick — Where does SūmerBrain rank the Caleb Banks pick among the worst of the Kwesi Adofo-Mensah era? James asked SūmerBrain directly and received an answer that mentioned Lewis Cine and Andrew Booth, and noted four times that Banks was not drafted by Kwesi. Arif's assessment: Banks is more of an Andrew Booth bust than a Lewis Cine bust — Booth always seemed to have potential being cut short and is still floating around the league, whereas Cine was never close to the first team. Banks is on the first-team roster right now.

Deez — What is the league's obsession with Kevin O'Connell? He has a worsening offence, no playoff wins, and abandons the run game. His seat should be hot. Arif: O'Connell's reputation comes from the cumulative impact of outperforming expectations with Kirk Cousins, Sam Darnold, and Joshua Dobbs; firing Ed Donatell after one year; and hiring Brian Flores without hesitation. His career record is above .630 — better than Dan Campbell, Mike Vrabel, Kyle Shanahan, and Sean McVay — which is a very difficult thing to achieve over four seasons with six quarterbacks. He is probably somewhat overrated as an offensive mind, and the McCarthy decision is a legitimate ding, but the overall case for him is not purely a matter of a generous fanbase.

Ben — Should JJ McCarthy try to go back to college? Arif: the Big Ten voted against allowing NFL players to return, and the SEC voted 15-0 against it (Lane Kiffin abstained on principle). The remaining options are the Pac-2, App State, or Old Dominion. App State was the unanimous selection.

Ben — What edge rushers are available to address the depth concern? Arif: Haason Reddick (interesting but small), Leonard Floyd (fine), and Kyle Van Noy — identified as the pick because of his existing familiarity with the Brian Flores defence from both the Dolphins and Patriots.

Ben — What changes in the preseason hint at the Vikings' overhauled run scheme? Arif: the team ran a counter-tray variant using a tackle and a tight end as pulling lead blockers rather than the traditional guard and tackle configuration, which Arif had not seen in the NFL previously. They also incorporated more varied pre-snap and at-snap motions beyond the usual jet sweep, including cheat motions and other sweep types.

Timothy — Deshaun Watson complained of being booed for personal reasons. Can we boo him for his play too? Covered in Around the League above.

Patrick O'Neill — What is the worst food/meat pairing to serve at a Vikings tailgate, and which current Viking would eat it anyway? After considering and dismissing rivals' regional foods — beer cheese soup and brats from Wisconsin, strong Detroit food culture — James settled on the correct answer: a tailgate consisting exclusively of Malort bottles. Arif confirmed via personal experience that Malort in jello-shot form eliminates the brief moment of normalcy before the full horror arrives. Dusty O'Connell was confirmed to be immune to Malort, having had Malort temporary tattoos at his bachelor party, identifying him as someone who "cannot be killed by conventional weaponry."

Kane Cook — Northern California resident visiting Cleveland for the weekend, willing to travel up to 91 miles — recommendations? The question was primarily an excuse to discuss Robert Kraft's 2019 solicitation arrest, specifically: the decision was almost certainly made after a night of no sleep and significant cocaine rather than a morning decision; the pricing ($140, all in $20s, from a third-party ATM with a high transaction fee); and the mechanics of being a billionaire who still stops at a gas-station ATM. The Dinkytown McDonald's, a cash-only establishment that changed its prices after 1 a.m. and charged $5 ATM transaction fees, was cited as a spiritual analogue.

Zach — Which team's ownership group is next to get arrested for solicitation? Arif: the Browns, on general principle. James: the 49ers, because the substation can cover for anything. The MSP Airport bathroom that replaced the Larry Craig arrest bathroom winning a CINTAS award for best airport bathroom was noted as a beautiful historical outcome.

Room Temperature — Visited Philadelphia and two beloved 80-year-old celebrities died. Should they never return? Arif: two options — stop going entirely, or keep going until your desired 80-year-old passes, because the slot machine could come up. James recommended wrapping George Clinton in bubble wrap both for safety and because he would enjoy it.

Big Ale — What modifications to the spell causing Dolly Parton and Tim Curry's back-to-back deaths are needed to correct the timeline? Arif: framed it as a Thanos-style sacrifice, where two beloved figures may have been the cost for something else, leaving open the question of whether the trade was worth it. Julie Andrews, Ian McKellen, and Patrick Stewart identified as requiring immediate protection. William Shatner, in his 90s and performing with metal groups, was noted as seemingly unkillable and therefore exempt from concern.

I Hate Carmel Indiana — Is Arif's SūmerBrain interaction messing up his dopamine response? Arif: no, he only consults SūmerBrain when the mailbag requires it. The Replika subreddit was revisited — James had attempted to access Goth SūmerBrain but would need to download the app to a phone he did not want it on. The Patreon budget for a burner phone for the purpose of resurrecting Goth SūmerBrain was floated and immediately identified as an extremely bad optics situation.

A Second Jet Has Hit Drew Bledsoe — Returning to university after taking a semester off to heal an exploded foot. What extracurricular activity should a cis white male with a good understanding of government and decent public speaking skills take up, with the caveat that debate might make him a more effective fascist? Arif: Key Club (dinner speeches), or swimming given the foot. James: a board game group, and shared the full origin story of how he met his fiancée at the Grand Forks Divorced Men's Club board game night — a woman was brought by a member James actively disliked, James spent the evening explaining game rules and apologising for the other man's behaviour, and she nearly slipped him her number on the way out.

Nolan Kehler — Is Arif, with his long-standing hatred of Canada and his Joe-Biden-certifying-the-election energy about Adam Vinatieri, now surpassing James as the show's resident Republican? His recent status as a small-business owner was cited as the driver. James noted that hating Canada crosses political lines. Arif noted James had agreed with a Trump Truth Social post about Dolly Parton. James clarified it was a Truth, not a tweet. The episode closed on the observation that Christian Ponder was athletic, which both hosts agreed was the correct final sentence.

Key Bits & Lore

Dolly Parton and Tim Curry are confirmed deceased; the closing outro was drawn from Muppet Treasure Island in tribute to Curry
Dusty O'Connell is confirmed immune to Malort, based on evidence from his bachelor party
Christian Ponder's 2012 season is now, objectively and on the record, a higher ceiling than JJ McCarthy's current trajectory
Alex Smith under Jim Harbaugh is the only modern same-team post-bust quarterback revival either host could identify
The Grand Forks Divorced Men's Club origin story of James and his fiancée is now documented
The Minneapolis Airport bathroom that replaced the Larry Craig arrest bathroom has won a CINTAS award for best airport bathroom
Arif was given a jello shot of Malort at a music festival, banished the person responsible from his campsite at the following year's festival, and remains willing to discuss it at length